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April 03, 2006

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Ashish Hanwadikar

"... illegals crossing our borders demanding free healthcare and education as well as providing a huge influx into our prison and legal system"

You don't have to accept their demands for free healthcare and education!

"The standard of living for millions of Americans has plummeted as we compete for these now low paying jobs."

Yeah, Right! I am sure you have reams of data to prove your point.

"A country has an obligation to protect it's citizens and economic protection should also be a priority."

Huh, I wonder which pages in my copy of the US constitution are missing! Do you have a more recent one that talks about economic protection!

Terry

We've already had one amnesty for almost 3,000,000 people under a program by Ronald Reagan in 1984. Since then we have an additional 12,000,000 illegals crossing our borders demanding free healthcare and education as well as providing a huge influx into our prison and legal system. If this 12,000,000 is granted some sort of legal acceptance is there any reason to believe that in ten years we will not have another 5 to 10 million illegals demanding similar rights?

As far as jobs they fill. It is not just the farm labor they have taken over. In many parts of the country they do dry wall, carpentry, electrical, etc. When illegal immigrant labor moves into these markets the net result is lower wages for all. The standard of living for millions of Americans has plummeted as we compete for these now low paying jobs.

A country has an obligation to protect it's citizens and economic protection should also be a priority.

Gaurav

Ashish,

Nation in modern times is a political construct as well. Today you can not seperate Nation from state.
While I am hardly a fan of liberalism, I am not in favour of "opening the borders" to one and all.
If you open the borders to all effectively there is no meaning to national boundaries.

I do not think that US constitution promise welfare, yet the truth remain that for every inhabitant there is an economical cost (cost of subsidies, welfare programs) as well as social cost.
Only if the advantage outweigh the cost immigration should be allowed.
When I said translational libertarianism is similar to communism, I meant that like communism it disregards concept of sovereign nation.

"I didn't know that the Nation (a non-personal fictious entity) carries the burden of its citizens. I thought the Nation is made-up of its citizen"

I said "the earth". If there is indiscriminate immigration then it will be a burden to citizen and therefore on the nation (which is a collective term for citizens)

Regards

Vasudevan

Hi,

this transnational libertarianism does indeed reek of communism and the terrorist ummah creed. The concept of the "nation" operates more or less consistently in its micro-versions of city, ward, street and home also.

If your heart bleeds so much for the rest of the world, would you allow anyone and everyone to barge into your home and demand a place to stay, a bed to sleep in and food during the mealtimes? If it can not happen in your home, it can not happen in your street either, can not happen in your city either - and so does it apply to your nation. Can anyone just put up a tent in the middle of your street and say that he is entitled to a living room? Can you build a hut or a house anywhere in the city without approval from the civic authorities?

Whether it is the home or street or city or the nation, there are certain rules that apply within the system and these rules have to be followed. Immigration is also not exempt from such rules. Just as I decide who enters my home and stays for how long, the nation should also have the right to decide who enters and does what.

Ashish Hanwadikar

"This authors wishes Nation would wither away. I hope not.I think Nations have a value.I wrote about it earlier"
Yes, Nation have value. So do family. Nation is a social concept, just like the family. On the other hand, the State is a political concept. I don't agree that the author want Nations to wither away.

They are exposing the hypocrisy of liberals whose humanitarian concern stop at the borders of the State. It is like somebody not bothering about anybody else but their family members while simultaneously talking
about value of sharing and selflessness within the family.

"Second, This "transnational libertarianism" is just a repackaged version of communism and Ummah, none of which regard Nation for different reasons."

This is laughable!

"You can not allow unlimited immigration.
You have to provide welfare for citizens, so you have to be sure that every immigrants works for himself and just not suck off from welfare"
Opps! Maybe some of the pages from my copy of the US constitution are missing. Can you please let me know which pages of the US constitution mention about providing for the welfare of the citizens?

"Fifth - It is foolish to expect one nation to carry burden of all earth."
I didn't know that the Nation (a non-personal fictious entity) carries the burden of its citizens. I thought the Nation is made-up of its citizen!

Gaurav

Ashish,

I beg to differ.

First this I consider this National Socialism (Nazi) to be a very cheap shot and when someone evokes this charge with so much ease. He stops to have any credibility in my eyes.
This authors wishes Nation would wither away. I hope not.I think Nations have a value.I wrote about it earlier

Second, This "transnational libertarianism" is just a repackaged version of communism and Ummah, none of which regard Nation for different reasons.

Third,
You can not allow unlimited immigration.
You have to provide welfare for citizens, so you have to be sure that every immigrants works for himself and just not suck off from welfare. I think it is unfair for citizens to provide for immigrants who are too eager to use welfare.

Fourth There is a matter of social assimilation.
For A society can not exist without it.
It is not clear that all immigrants are ready to do that.

Fifth - It is foolish to expect one nation to carry burden of all earth. Why, one may ask, Mexican government can not take care of its own.

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